If I comment on my other post, I’m talking about:
http://www.moraldecaymud.org/index.php?/forums/viewthread/133/

I apologize for the amount of information that’s going to be in this, but I
hope it’s also informative to other mages out there. I’m going to either
keep posting for the changes that need to happen, or stop caring about how
the class works. I’m fairly sure everyone knows what path I’m on right now.

Issues covered will be trance, spells and gear.

TRANCE (Thanks to Lynis and Grandpa for help with numbers)
Yes, this includes trancing crystal. However, I’m also going to touch on
passive mana regeneration. I still feel that trancing crystal should just be
added to the passive 6m/45s we get for being a mage. This would have to scale
but I’d be happy to drop numbers for every level. As it stands, the original
numbers that I posted ages ago were almost right on the money. Giving the
current time between trancing crystal ticks and normal game ticks would bring
the passive number up to around 20m/45s. Not only would this allow blasting
mages a little more flexibility for gathering their groups, but allow melee
mages the ability to stop and trance for a second when needed. As always, the
bulk of mana regen will still come from drinking as I’m sure it was intended.

I have found that trance does indeed scale, but how much is still almost
laughable. I say this because of the vast difference between what a level 10
mage and an aristo mage spends in mana. Yes, I know there is a difference
between how much either can drink, but trance should give more than an
incredibly minor boost to mana regeneration. At level 10, a mage will tick
8m/31.5s and a level 24 mage will tick 12m/20s. So, per minute the level 24
mage will gain roughly 20 more mana than the level 10 mage. Let’s just say
that the extra mana is barely a drop in the bucket vs mana consumption. I’m
under the assumption that the time between ticks is based on level and the
amount per tick is based on int. The amount per tick is also unchanged by a
player’s bless, which I hope is just an oversight, but it can change with
brains.

Something else that I hope is just an oversight is the difference between
normal trance ticks and trancing crystal ticks. At level 9, trancing crystal
takes 7 more seconds to tick, and at 24 it takes 6 more. If this was
intentional, please change it use the same formula as normal trance. Superior
trance (aristo skill) -should- also affect trancing crystal, why it doesn’t
completely baffles me. The time between trance ticks also does not change
past level 20 from the testing I did. A pattern I see repeating with a lot of
mage spells.

SPELLS
Spell failure should go away. I’d also love to see some sort of a warning
when a spell is about to fade, much akin to how it works with clerics.
Knowing the amount of time it would take to put this in, I’m sure I’ll never
see it though. The warning before shield, forceshield and talisman does need
to be lengthened though. Now, on to the actual spells…

Detect magic: If the magical nature of an item increases it’s armor class,
weapon class or magically increased accuracy (some items do list this),
detect magic should confirm this. There have been many wizards over the
years, so the power of the magical aura does not tell a mage anything of
significance. I’ve also always been a firm believer in bringing back old
inspect for fighters. Keeping weapon/armor information secret from the
players only rewards people that get the information from sources that
shouldn’t be part of the equation, and great items go unused because people
don’t understand what they do.

Bladechange: I’m fairly sure the change does not extend to the weapon’s
specials, so it limits how useful this could be for a mage. The recent
change was still very welcomed and I do use it sometimes.

Enchant: I’ve been harping on this for years, and for very good reasons. I’ll
cover this slightly in the weapon section as well, but there are severe
limitations on what a mage can enchant for themselves. This is very much akin
to how worthless phase armor is for mage (not needed for warrior mage either)
but it’s not as blatant. The argument of “they are already of magical nature”
is not a valid...what better use for an enchant spell than on a mage’s
weapons and armor. There are a grand total of two tunics that a mage can use
and neither can be enchanted.

Warrior Mage: I’ve tested this extensively along with the best gear I could
get my curious little hands on. On my final test I had Yulak’s Dagger and the
Serrated Bone Knife along with the WM gloves and a fully enchanted set of
armor. I made 100k less exp, drank more and had to make triggers to deal with
the micromanagement. It still needs work. My thoughts about triggered spells
(that would not stack with other mage spells) while using the mask would
still be the best solution to make this an awesome alternative way to play a
mage. If this was made to be a situational spell, the amount of gear that
you’d need to carry around to make it useful is also ridiculous. I’m also unsure
if the ability to wield better weapons is affected by greater weapon use with
this spell active, which it probably should be if it isn’t.

Seeker: I’m going to mention this in the casting time list too, but I’d like
to see the duration extended a little. Perhaps use haste’s duration formula
since they are used in conjunction most of the time.

Lightning Sheath: The number of bolts in a sheath needs to be greatly
increased. I do like how long it lasts when it doesn’t expend all of its
charges though. It’s unique in that regard.

CONTINUED…

Heroism and Brains scaling issues: As I’ve said many times, most mage spells
were coded to max out at level 20. While some duration formulae take higher
levels of int into account, level restrictions are more tricky. A level 9
mage will get two +3’s from heroism and +4 from brains, while a level 24 gets
two +4’s and +6 respectively. I’m well aware that these spells raise the
actual stats (unlike bless), but the scaling needs to improve. At 29 a mage
should get +6’s from heroism and +8 from brains.

Heroism and Brains addition: These should block their counterpart spells
gnat strength and feeblemind while active.

Spells that int does not seem to help but should: I mean strictly in duration
but that also implies power. All shield spells, both resist spells, both
globe spells, iron will, blur image, flame/element shield, and damaging
offensive spells. It is also completely impossible to test if using brains
before casting enchant helps its effectiveness, which I think is rather odd
considering I’m the one casting the spell (see detect magic).

A few more casting time adjustments: Reduce memorized casting time by 1 tick
for major resist, rebound, forceshield, lightning sheath and burning hands.
Reduce talisman, seeker and trancing crystal by two ticks.

Spells that are affected by brains: This could mean power, but I can only
test duration unless I’m presented with a number via a stat increase. Either
way, have brains up before casting heroism, haste, seeker, rebound, burning
hands, sword and feather weight. Given what is affected, I assume that
lightning sheath also falls into this category, but I’m not going to count
how many bolts it fires, sorry. If there are plans to have all spells
affected by brains (I hope), the formula can be copied from any of these.

WEAPONS
Before I get into the list, I’d just like to mention enchant one more time.
Even if the power of the weapon was coded with a preexisting enchantment, the
mage should still be able to augment it. If there is one listed here that the
coder believes would be too powerful with enchant on it, slightly lower the
benefit of the enchant, but it should still be allowable. Meaning if enchant
really does add two at aristo levels, let it just add one, or have it give
the weapon a slightly increased chance to special.

I’m also aware that the listing isn’t 100% mage-only, but they can all be
wielded by a mage without greater weapon use. I would have tested every mage
weapon I could get my hands on, but only some of them work for me (another
bad mechanic put into practice). I’ll put a ‘+’ next to the name if it can
be enchanted and follow it with a ‘V’ if it can be vaulted.

Dark Fate+: A fantastic weapon. Since it can no longer be vaulted, the mana
cost to remove the illusion should be zero on success and -20 mana on a
failure.

Icy Heart Dagger_V: Easily the most powerful mage weapon vs male monsters.
The downside is that you need to be female to make it work, and there isn’t a
male version of the weapon in the game.

Rod of Endless Winters_V: I only listed this so invokers try it out because
it isn’t a good melee weapon. No, really, if you’re a blaster mage get it,
but good luck, the path to it is perilous and the wielder is no slouch.

Blade of Order/Chaos+V: Weapon class should be increased. Chance to special
needs to be increased a moderate amount. The area specials are very cool
though.

Chromatic Kris+V: While an interesting weapon because it does every
conceivable type of damage, it doesn’t make it a good weapon. As far as I
can tell, it has the same chance to hit a weak resistance as it does to hit
one that the monster is completely immune to. Perhaps a peek at Amalgam’s
code could make this a decent weapon. Chance to special needs to be greatly
increased.

Milabrega’s Rod_V: Frostbite takes far too long to do it’s full damage and
the chance to get multiple frostbites working at once is nearly zero. The
chance to special needs to be moderately increased.

Scepter of Souls+V: The summoned souls are the biggest benefit and drawback
for this weapon. The souls -never- go away unless killed and can attack the
summoner (or anyone else for that matter, and they do so almost all the time)
when they reenter the room. When not in combat the souls should despawn
within 10 seconds and should never attack anyone else. They also bug out
protect (like a player guarding you). The chance for the damaging special
needs to be greatly increased.

Staff of Vrinn+V: While I like the old version of the weapon (it used to heal
a small amount of health and mana, now just mana), the current version is
still one of the best off-hand weapons available. The special is its biggest
benefit and drawback because it attacks every limb but also means that its
potential to kill something quickly is poor. I also have no idea what type of
damage it causes. The chance to special should be increased slightly but the
amount of mana it returns should be adjusted down accordingly.

Oathbreaker(don’t recall, will test if it can be enchanted)V: I admit that I
haven’t tested this one all that much because it’s meant to be used on things
that have mana. Beyond players, the amount of monsters that use mana is next
to zero, so its usefulness is severely limited. I’ll attempt to give a little
time to this weapon in the future. Killing the keeper of this weapon is not
worth the effort if your goal is the weapon itself. If the trend of 2h mage
weapons is consistent (and it is), the weapon class should be increased and
the chance to special should be greatly increased.

CONTINUED…

God Weapons+: The weapon class should be increased and also take greater
weapon use into account. If you want to go with 2h weapons, god weapons are
the best around. You do need to keep the damage type in mind as they do the
damage that their name suggests as well as how much you want to train the
respective skill.

Wyrm Lord_V: Weapon class should be increased. This falls into the same
category as Milabrega’s Rod because the acid burns take an exceptionally long
time to do damage and the chance to get more than one working is nearly zero.
The chance to special should be greatly increased.

Great Staff of the Four Winds: Given the weapon’s location and description
it should be the best 2h weapon available to mage. With that in mind, the
specials are indeed powerful, but far too infrequent. The inability to
enchant this weapon is frustrating as well. The weapon class should be
increased and the chance for it to special should be moderately increased. I
would say greatly increased because it falls into the 2h category of mage
weapons, but the specials are quite strong. I used this for an entire boot
and made over 100k less exp than if I had used the better 1h weapons.

Mighty Staff of Glacial Affliction: Need to test, I forgot it was an aristo
weapon. Will update.

Flametongue: It used to be able to be enchanted, but since the change to have
it adapt to greater weapon use, it no longer can be. Unless there is
something I’m missing about the weapon (which is entirely possible given what
I’m able to test), this change actually made the weapon weaker for mages.
With that said, the frequency of the damaging attacks should be moderately
increased. The burn special seems to happen more often than before, but it
could also be that I have seeker now. The frequency of the special that feeds
the flame needs to be moderately increased as well, or when it feeds the
flames it should add two extra burns to the effect instead of just one. I’ll
often have the flames burn out while I’m double hasted.

Werebear Claw+V: The only 1h sword in the game that you can use to train
with, but its weapon class is decent and it can be enchanted. The acid special
is so completely random in duration and power, that it can be awesome or
completely worthless. It should definitely be changed to be more consistent.
The chance for an acid or bleed special should both be increased a moderate
amount.

Wand of Markar’s Clash_V: Remove the need to wield it to trigger it, but even
that wouldn’t make it worth using.

Anon

While I read it all, I’ll reserve my comments for the weapons, since that’s the only area for Mages that I have any authority.

First, let me state what Anon will already know: there is a philosophical difference between Wizards and Players in regards to Mages. Anon wants to have a melee mage, a mage with high armour class from shield spells (some of those even being offensive perhaps) and top-tier weapons with high weapon class and frequent and damaging specials. We wizards, at least those of us currently coding, do not agree. The classes have been divided according to those with high defense and those with high offense; no class should have both. Look at Clerics for an example: they have high defense (from unlimited armour, shield prayers, and stat-boosting prayers), but if you’ve played one, you know that they are not the most offensively oriented class. Or look at Barbs; sure, they can pump out a lot of attacks and with very high damage (dual-wielding god weps anyone?), but their defense blows - they take every hit that comes their way and pray that their Con is high enough to absorb the damage. Mages have access to either defensive spells or offensive spells according to their class. I am not going to add top-tier weapons for the defensive-oriented Mages to use, or top-tier armour (bypassing or adding to the robe) to overly boost the defense of the offense-oriented schools.

Second, having said that, I will gladly go back and double-check the weapon class of some Mage weps and take into account the new Aristo skill that should allow them to wield higher-wc items - like Flametongue. (As an aside, Flametongue is better now with my changes than it appeared before, even though now it is no longer enchantable.* I substituted real wc-increasing magic for an effect-less aura of magic.) However, I am in the midst of creating something new, and I do not want to take time away from that project to go back and review old code that is technically working as originally designed. (An important corollary is that without FTP on the new box, creating new code is just easier than reviewing and changing code that is already in-game.)

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* Unfortunately there is currently no way to create something with built-in magic and then also allow magic to be added to that. Mage-magic is just handled differently than druid-magic unfortunately. I’m sure someone could figure out a way to change the code so that going forward mage-magic worked like druid-magic while being backwards compatible with the (literally) thousands of objects that use the current mage-magic system - but I’m just not that good of a programmer.

Yup, I completely agree that mage weapons shouldn’t be of the highest weapon class and power. That’s why I was very careful when suggesting weapon improvements. You’ll notice that the weapons I used to make the most experience were not suggested to be improved. The testing hinges on the fact that I can use the rage band and haste myself. If I had been using Nightbane, I certainly wouldn’t suggest it improved. Claiming that mages shouldn’t be able to fight and haste is only useful to other classes isn’t really feasible. I use the tools available to me, just as any other class does. If you truly believe that a Paladin using said Nightbane has no offensive potential, I don’t know what else to say. Also, to respond to the barbarian comment, they have a slew of very good armor that would bring them fairly close to a plate wearer’s ac, although it does take more work. A mage’s power falls directly on their spells.

The point about the difference between mage magic and druidic magic sorta lost me. I’d never suggest that -all- items in the game be updated, the list was very limited. For example, the werebear claw is a higher weapon class than a mage should be able to wield, but I can. I’d see that as a way to work in the weapon class you intend for an item while still allowing a mage to enchant it.

Anon

This is a side conversation on enchants:
I’d be happy to allow Mages to enchant even things that start off with magic - if the code allowed it. Just like two Druids can enchant a Bone Breastplate, I’d be okay with two Mages enchanting the Perle Svaerd. Mage-magic though is a static integer whereas Druid-magic is actually an array (for those that understand and care).

What I have done in the past is what you experienced with Flametongue, and it’s confusing to players. I’ll have an item with a detect-magic strong describing some magical effect and then I’ll use a fake-aura to round out the description and make it more believable. For example, something might be described as a moderately powerful magic item and I’ll force the detect-magic to return “moderately magic” ... but in reality the item might just have physical wc, not the magic wc. A mage could then come behind and add their enchantment - but that wouldn’t show up and the item would still be “moderately magical”

It’s just a bad, old, simplistic system. We’ve gotten fancier and fancier over the years, but the code base is still almost 15 years old and just not designed for it.

Off to a meeting - will add more later.

Change the integer so it isn’t static, problem solved

Also, my first reply might have come off as being argumentative, but I welcome all of your feedback.

The true reason behind most of my weapon improvement suggestions (as you know, but others may not), mage weapons took a rather substantial hit many years back. I make a great deal more experience when I don’t use any weapons that existed during that time (staff of vrinn is the only exception even though it was changed). I’m simply trying to fix the damage that was caused by an overly aggressive nerf. As far as I know, I’m the only mage that still makes exp this way, when (you’ll remember) back in the day it was very popular.

Risk vs reward should almost always be part of an item’s power. To get two of my most powerful weapons I need to kill two different monsters worth over 5k each, or I need to venture into the ice area to off a polar bear, a giant, and the wielder is no slouch either. I admit that every mage weapon shouldn’t be the best, but 100-200k exp differences shouldn’t be so prevalent when selecting either.

Anon

I wish old mail showed years too, but these were replies from a very long time ago. I apologize if you don’t want this posted and I’ll remove it if you do. I thought you’d get a kick out of it though and I wanted to show everyone that this is a very old issue.

From: Reaver
Subj: Where I stand

Date: Dec 28

Where I stand is, I am not looking at mages over the holidays. After
the holidays and probably after MD’s move I will make a fresh reassessment
of mage strength and any changes that are needed. I am not done with conjurers
nor with mages as a whole.

Reaver

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From: Belegost
Reply sent.
Subj: RE: mage weapons

Cc: flatline,reaver,galath
Date: Oct 5

Anon:

Thanks for your note about the Mage weapons.  Ilusio had sent me a
similar note a few weeks ago.  At his prompting I sat down with my
Excel chart of all the mage weapons and re-compared difficulty of
getting the weapons, wc, encumbrance, rate of special attacks,
special damage, damage type, and damage location (full body vs limbs).
Comparing the mage weapons to weapons for classes that actually
depend on them also revealed interesting results.

On the basis of those two analysis, I am unwilling to adjust the mage
weapons at this time.  Your most compelling point was on Newbie Mages,
and steps are being made to aid them.  There is already an ac2 ring
in the game for young Mages, and with New Anshelm there will be
weapons specifically for the newly classed as well.

Thank you for your input on the Mage weapons, but I have not seen any
compelling evidence that would convince me to re-adjust the weapons
at this time.

- Belegost

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From: Belegost
Reply sent.
Subj: RE: mage weps

Cc: flatline,reaver
Date: Oct 6

Anon:

I like the idea of a fighter-mage, personally.  When I was playing
over at Realms of the Dragon, I was a “war wizard”, a fighter-mage.

Now that we’re talking about a specific type of mage subclass
though, that brings Reaver into the conversation more.  I will not
allow area code to build a type of PC - that kind of fundamental
change needs to occur on the class level so that everyone enjoys
the benefits.

If one of the mage schools is going to be a fighter-mage, then every
member of that school needs access to that playing style.  And that
rules out area code and requires the changes to be made to the class
itself.  If and only if it is decided that one of the schools should
be a fighter-class, or if one of the schools *needs* weapons, then
we can work with that by making school-specific equipment.

Having said that, let me go a little further.  There is apparently
a winning strategy for Conjurers that does not involve using weapons.
If you are interested in playing MD and you want to keep Anon, I
suggest you adapt to this style of playing.  I don’t forsee the
mage weapon situation changing anytime soon.  If you don’t want to
play with that style, that is, of course, your perogative, but you’d
miss out on some good, clean, free fun - and MD would miss you.

- Belly

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From: Reaver
Reply sent.
Re:  RE: mage weps
Cc: belegost
Date: Oct 10

There is the possibility of other changes to mages, that do not
involve the weapons. I have noticed some problems with the class which will
be addressed, including some that you have pointed out in the past.

Reaver

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From: Belegost
Re:  Mage Weapons
Date: Sep 19

I am willing to revisit the mage weapons, given that Reaver has
opted not to make any changes to Mages for the time being.

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Nostalgia!!!!

Neat! That was cool to see. (And I’m glad that i didn’t write anything that I’d be embarrassed by.)