A solution for Thieves (by Falanore & Psychology)
Posted: 18 February 2009 11:53 PM   [ Ignore ]
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Posted: 18 February 2009 11:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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> Message number 49, written by Psychology at Feb 19
Subject: Thief Post

Hey all, I have been playing a lot recently, both solo and in parties with
various different classes such as monk, thief, and cleric. It has been a lot of
fun, but Falanore (my brother) and I have been talking a lot about the
playstyle of thief, the utility of the skills, and basically just thief stuff
in general, we have come up with a few interesting ideas that might reduce some
of the frustrating things about thief and make the class more fun to play,
without making it more powerful or changing the style it already has. These
ideas are kind of our thoughts on how we can take what thief is already like
and just modify a little bit to make use of some skills that aren’t used a
whole lot, while also increasing the fun factor.

The first thing we discussed was the ability Slit, along with Anklebite and
Axillaryslash. We also talked about Assail and then we came up with some ideas.
There are a few things we don’t really like about the Slit skill set:
1) It takes a really long time to do the three skills, therefore you do a lot
lower damage than you think, even on successful hits, due to melee hits not
being done and poison not being applied, especially when you miss and have to
restart the combo.
2) It costs a lot of mana, minimum of 50 mana for a successful slit, which
fairly often will miss, thus requiring 100 mana to get a successful slit.
3) Only hits legs, arms, and head, while many players prefer to ambush the
body.
4) Can’t be used with 2h weapons (on slit) though many players really like the
style of 2h weapons and therefore don’t get to use the skill.
5) Can’t be used on non-humanoids. We feel that the highest level requirement
skill (also highest mana costing skill) should not be limited to only one type
of npc, even though it is quite commonly fought.

Our thoughts on these issues resulted in a fairly interesting idea that might
be worth consideration. We propose that the three skills (Anklebite,
Axillaryslash and Slit) be taken out of the thelp skill list, while replacing
Slit with a new skill: Assault. Here are the features associated with the new
skill Assault
1) Assault would be ultimately the same as Assail, in the fact that it would do
the same thing, but with a few quirks.
2) Assault would cost 30 mana, oppose to the 15 mana that Assail costs.
3) Assault would have the same chance to hit as Assail does in a party, even if
you are fighting alone.
4) Assault would have a small chance (maybe 15% or so) to also perform Slit on
top of the Assail attack (And would be performable with a 2h weapon, while also
affecting non-humanoids as assail does).
5) Assault would have a small chance (maybe 15% of so) to also perform
Axillaryslash on top of the Assail attack (Axillaryslash would be changed to
damage the body instead of the arms).
6) Assault would have a slightly large chance (maybe 20% or so) to also perform
Anklebite on top of the Assail attack (Anklebite would be renamed Gash and
would hit a random limb instead of the legs, therefore making it useable on
non-humanoids as the modified Slit and Axillaryslash could, and as Assail
already does).

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Posted: 18 February 2009 11:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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We feel that this change would simply take the existing skills
Anklebite/Axillaryslash/Slit, and put them in a different skill that would be
more fun to use (due to the randomness) while also making them be used more
often (we rarely even use Slit or the other two skills with the current
playstyle of thief) without making the skills more powerful due to the high
mana cost and relatively low chance of them occuring alongside the Assail
attack on the Assault. It would also be really fun every once in a blue moon
when 2 or 3 of the effects happened on the same Assault (since they all have a
small chance to simultaneously occur on top of the Assail attack in the
Assault).

We also would like to point out that we think combining the Assail skill with
the set of three makes logical sense in our minds due to the fact that Assail
and the set of three are almost identical in function, other than the fact that
one is a random limb attack, while the other is set to attack certain limbs.

We realized that the removal of Anklebite, Axillaryslash and Slit would leave 3
empty slots in the skill list (2 if Assault replaces Slit), so we came up with
a few more ideas to help make up for this. Anklebite currently is achieved at
level 14, we were thinking that this skill could be replaced with a new skill
named Hemorrhage, here is what Hemorrhage would entail:
1) Hemorrhage would cost 0 mana and would be a passive skill that does not need
to be turned on or activated in any way.
2) Hemorrhage would have a small chance to occur on any normal melee attack on
an opponent (with a sharp weapon).
3) Hemorrhage would simply be something along the lines of “After striking
(enemy’s name), you seize the opportunity to rip open a nasty wound in their
(limb attacked).”
4) Hemorrhage would cause the enemy to take a small amount of bleeding damage
similar to the bleed caused by an ambush or assail, in the way that you would
have to wait a few seconds before it would damage them. It would be a minor
amount of damage, similar to a typical melee hit, so that it would not be an
overpowered skill in any way and also because it might happen fairly often if
you are hitting the opponent a lot.
5) Hemorrhage could have a small chance (maybe 10% or so) to either rip a
dreadful gash in the opponent, causing them to bleed several times, or to rip
small gashes in several random limbs.

Our second thought was to come up with a skill that could replace the empty
slot left in the skill list where Axillaryslash used to be. We thought of
several ideas and came up with one that seemed to fit well. Dash would be a
skill that could replace Axillaryslash on the skill list, and would have these
characteristics:
1) Dash would work similar to Weave and Evade, which are currently learned at
level 5, while Dash would be learned at level 16 to replace Axillaryslash.
2) Dash would cost 30 mana, which is double the cost of Weave and Evade, though
it would give the same defensive effect as the typical Evade, and would last
the same amount of time.
3) Dash would only be usable by the skilled thieves above level 16, who are
dextrous enough that they can move with such agility that they can still
maintain the same combat ability that they had before beginning to Dash,
therefore a high level thief could have the same defensive value of Evade
without losing the offense as they do with Evade.

One last skill we talked about a lot was the skill Fleetfoot. It seems that we
rarely find the opportunity to take advantage of this skill in the mechanics
that it currently is designed around. We came up with a few ideas that might
make this skill more fun and useful for thief.
1) Fleetfoot should work as it does currently but should be usable even while
drunk out of your mind.
2) The more drunk you are, the more mental energy a thief must spend in order
to keep up with their Fleetfoot maneuvering! Perhaps a very drunk thief would
need to spend as much as 15-20 mana for upkeep (as oppose to 1 when completely
sober, as is currently) in order to keep their feet moving while drunk!

I hope that you guys like the ideas and thoughts that Falanore and I have come
up with, we certainly spent a lot of time in contemplation of how we could
improve the enjoyment of the thief class for ourselves and others, without
specifically increasing the power or changing the playstyle of the class. We
really think that these ideas would serve well in making the class fun and we
hope that you guys will think so too! I would like to say in advance that I am
probably throwing unrealistic numbers and percentages for the skills I am
proposing in this post, but if they are considered for implementation, I’m sure
the wizards will know what numbers would be balanced and not make the skills
overpowered! =)

Message number: 49
> Message number 50, written by Psychology at Feb 19
Subject: Thief Post 2

I ran out of room on the last post so here is the last idea we had, Sharpen.
1) Sharpen would only be usable on poisoned weapons, and the weapons would lose
the effect when the poison fades from the weapons, that way thieves cannot
sharpen the weapons of other players.
2) Sharpen would slightly increase both the chance that a weapon would
Hemorrhage an opponent and the chance that a weapon would apply the poison into
the opponent.
3) This could perhaps be a talent learned at level 17 in between Dash and
Fleetfoot.

Sorry for the monster posts, if I have given you a headache from all the
reading. Hope you like the ideas and give them some thought/feedback if you
would like to.

P.S. Obviously I would expect a wizard to find a balanced amount of damage for
these skills in order to prevent them from being too powerful, if they are
considered.

Message number: 50
>

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Posted: 18 February 2009 11:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Hope that these ideas help take care of some of the problems people have pointed out in thief! Sorry for any typos or lack of clarity, writing monster posts at 3 AM can do that hehe.

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Posted: 19 February 2009 04:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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wow.. you write books like Anon… gimmie a couple weeks to read it smile.. but i was thinking about thiefs too.. on a more minor note.. when setting traps/bombs.. being able to make it go off when someone exits the room.. maybe somthing similar to a mages wall? when you walk in you here click, then you have a chance to disarm it (maybe timed?) based on the level of the trap/dex.. should equal out to a level 15 thiefs trap would be hard for a non-aristo to disarm (unless another thief)… kinda jumbled idea.. like always but im sure you get the point

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